From netcom.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!surfnet.nl!news.unisource.nl!xs4all!xs4all!usenet Thu Aug 29 05:17:27 1996 Path: netcom.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!surfnet.nl!news.unisource.nl!xs4all!xs4all!usenet From: kspaink@xs4all.nl (Karin Spaink) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: DUTCH report: CoS lawyers hunting for Vorlon Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:34:07 GMT Organization: Marcab Tech, Inc. Lines: 120 Message-ID: <321e1617.15227959@news.xs4all.nl> Reply-To: kspaink@xs4all.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: asd02-19.dial.xs4all.nl X-XS4ALL-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:35:22 MET DST X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Nauta Dutilh and the hunt for Vorlon 1. Matters of fact 2. Personal comment 3. Timeline > 1. Matters of fact Ever since Vorlon reposted the NOTS on Monday, August 19, Nauta Dutilh - CoS Dutch legal representatives - are in quite a state. Immediately after the offending postings were made, they contacted our lawyer Bakker Schut and requested that XS4all would take measures. After all, according to the headers of these postings, XS4all was the system whence these postings originated. After some consideration, XS4all decided to cancel Vorlon's postings on Wednesday 21. Their main reason for doing so was that after the first posting of the NOTS, in May 1996 ( via Anonymous , who signed his messages with 'Vorlon'), Nauta Dutilh sent XS4all and hacktic.utopia the copyright notices for the NOTS, plus a statment of a notary who had compared the NOTS originals with the posted messages. This material showed that RTC did indeed own the copyrights to the NOTS and provided evidence that RTC's copyright had indeed been violated by the postings of the NOTS that were done via the utopia.hacktic remailer. Nauta Dutilh was not satisfied with XS4all cancelling the messages. They also requested that XS4all check their logfiles in order to find out which XS4all user had posted the NOTS as vorlon@space.b5. XS4all answered that yes, indeed, by studying their logs they were able to trace from which account the NOTS had been posted, but that they were loathe to Nata Dutilh; they would rather confer with XS4all manager Felipe Rodriquez first, but Felipe was on vacation and could not be reached before September. Nauta Dutilh then threatened to sue XS4all. XS4all closed the offending account. > 2. Personal comment Concerning the NOTS, CoS has behaved admirably towards XS4all, especially when compared to their earlier behaviour (raids, etc.) They have gproven beyond reasonable doubt that they do indeed own the copyrights to the NOTS and that this was violated. XS4all therefore is right to cancel the recent Vorlon postings - that did indeed originate via their system - and to close the account they were posted from. It's strange, and worth noing however, that Nauta Dutilh is taking it for granted that Vorlon (who posted in August 1996) and Vorlon (who posted in May 1966) are the _same_ person. There is, however, not a shred of evidence that this is indeed the case (and I think it's inconceivable that somebody who knows how to use a remailer, would use a faked account in Free Agent believing that this is enough of a disguise in order to not get caught). Nauta Dutilh's argument that they are dealing with a recidivist is therefore rather unconvincing. Nevertheless, chances are that XS4all will indeed be forced to inform Nauta Dutilh as to the personal information of the offending poster - in which case this user will be subpoena'd immediately. And my best guess is that this user will lose such a court case. > 3. Time line May 6, 1996 , aka Vorlon, posts the NOTS on a.r.s. May 1996 Nauta Dutilh gives XS4all material that gives reason to believe that RTC's copyrights were infringed by posting the NOTS. August 19, 1996, 0:30 (Monday) Vorlon2 posts a message in which he announces a repost of the NOTS August 19, 18:53 Vorlon2 posts the NOTS, PGP-encrypted. August 20, 12:41 (Tuesday) Angry fax by Nauta Dutilh in which the state that the NOTS have been reposted August 20, afternoon Various phonecalls between Bakker Schut and Nauta Dutilh August 20, 17:10 Vorlon2 posts the keys to decrypt the NOTS August 20, 17:40 Angry fax by Nauta Dutilh about the posting of the key August, 18:21 Angry fax by Nauta Dutilh: they state that the NOTS have been posted via XS4ALL August 21, (Wednesday) Nauta Dutilh theatens to sue XS4all Aaugust 21, 16:27 XS4all cancels Vorlon2's postings August 22, (Thursday) Letter by Bakker Schut to Nauta Dutilh August 23, 11:05 (Friday) Fax by Nauta Dutilh; they want Vorlon2's personalia and threaten XS4all with a lawsuit August 23, 14:45 Fax by Bakker Schut to Nauta Dutilh, in which he explains that the offending account has been closed by XS4all. groet, Karin Spaink - I write, therefore I am: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink Steunfonds rechtszaak Scientology v. Spaink et. al.: - Vrienden van K., giro 450 9627, Amsterdam