Path: netnews.worldnet.att.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!surfnet.nl!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!mn5.swip.net!news From: Zenon Panoussis Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: The frolic of e-mail Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 15:15:02 +0200 Organization: - Lines: 167 Message-ID: <32283AD6.220B@dodo.pp.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup106-4-9.swipnet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-User: s-40153 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 [nl] (Win16; I) CC: Zenon Panoussis The following correspondence used up bandwidth today: --------------------------- begin copy------------------------------- Subject: Copyrighted Works Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 02:07:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Helena Kobrin To: oracle@dodo.pp.se Dear Mr. Panoussis: Your posting of 31 August 1996 states that you are making available the NOTs materials and the Fishman Affidvit at the following web site: http://130.244.97.141/not/index.htm http://130.244.97.141/ot/cos.htm As you are well aware, the NOTs works and the OT II and OT III material contained in the attachments to the Fishman Affidavit are copyrighted, unpublished works belonging to my client, Religious Technology Center. It is hereby demanded that you permanently block access to this web site. It is further demanded that you delete these materials from the web site, as your placement of them on this computer violates my client's rights. Sincerely, Helena K. Kobrin -----------------------------end copy-------------------------------- and --------------------------- begin copy------------------------------- Subject: NOTs & OTs & God knows WHATs Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 14:37:36 +0200 From: Zenon Panoussis To: Helena Kobrin References: 1 > Your posting of 31 August 1996 states that you are making available > the NOTs materials (...) Should I understand that you read a.r.s.? In such case you must have noticed my posting titled "News & decisions" in which I quoted a message to Dahlman Magnusson advokatbyrå. In case you missed it, I'll quote it here too, translated from Swedish: ================================================================= Subject: Enquiry about power of attorney Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:44:19 +0200 From: Zenon Panoussis To: dm@dma.se I would need two clarifications. - Does Pär Leander or anybody else in the law firm represent RTC or any other alleged owner of rights to "Operating Thetan" or "New Era Dianetics"? - If yes, do you intend to take any judicial actions as a result of my publication of these works, the aforementioned on an Internet web page and in print, the latter in a newsgroup on the Internet? I will interpret a failure to reply as a negative reply. Sincerely ZP ================================================================= Having received no reply at all after two entire working days, I assume that Dahlman Magnusson no longer represent the CoS, RTC etc. If they still do, their lack of reply indicates their clients' lack of interest in what I do. So, in a way, your message surprises me. > As you are well aware, the NOTs works and the OT II and OT III > material contained in the attachments to the Fishman Affidavit are > copyrighted, unpublished works belonging to my client, Religious > Technology Center. The OT II and OT III are not at all unpublished works. They are published in Sweden with ISBN 91-630-4721-7, have been fairly widely distributed and are on sale by me. If you would like to order, you will find an order form in a.r.s. As for the NOTs, I have to this day not seen any proof of any copyright to them. I find this dispute between us interesting, but I am not sure if I would like to widen it at this moment. I have still more documents in my hand that I consider publishing and to which The CoS or some related body might have claims of copyright. I would therefore ask you to indicate a way in which I formally and provenly can submit such documents to your clients for examination and give them the opportunity to make their copyright claims *before* my publication instead of after it. The appointment by your clients of a legal representative in Sweden with power of attorney to (at least) this precise purpose would provide me with such a possibility. On the contrary, submitting documents to you in the USA through whatever legal procedures is out of my reach, while submitting them to you by e-mail or similar methods provides weak proofs of what was really submitted; therefore are both these methods out of the question. I will await a reply from you in this subject until Tuesday the 3rd of September, 16.00 *central European summer time* (UTC+2). If you clearly indicate in a timely reply that you will appoint an empowered representative in Sweden, I will await another three working days for you to actually do so. Thereafter I will submit the documents in question to that representative against a copy of his enpowering document and give him fair time to go through them. On the contrary, if any link of this chain of proceedings breaks, I'll just go ahead and publish these documents too. > It is hereby demanded that you permanently block access to this web > site. It is further demanded that you delete these materials from the > web site, as your placement of them on this computer violates my client's > rights. As I see it, the fact that the publisher of the works is named and identifiable and the fact that you can take action against him (me in this case) precludes all liability on the part of the service provider, that you in this case assume is me too. There is in my view no ground for any demands to a service provider and certainly not demands such as permanently blocking access to sites, cancelling of accounts and the like. Please be aware that your tactics of massive overkill may turn against you in the long run. You are challenging both principal values and the grounds of business of too many too well renowned and too powerful organizations for your chosen tactics to be wise. You managed to intimidate my ISP because it is a small firm with hardly any resources to engage in legal fights, and you have managed to intimidate Netcom because of the gross costs of litigation in the USA, but consider what you risk the day that you challenge giants such as the national PTTs in Europe, in processes that have to be carried out in Europe. In the long run you are making them the friends and allies of the likes of me, a fact for which I thank you, but which might slightly displease your clients. If you would like to carry this discussion further in a somewhat constructive spirit, you are welcome. The subjects I would like to discuss are normal fair use quote of CoS material (considering now that any previous alleged trade secret status has evaporated) and the end of the spamming of a.r.s. I presume that you in such case would bring the matter of in extenso publications into the agenda. My conditions for such a discussion are very simple: it is to be sincere and open. No secrets, no gags. Tell me if you're interested. ZP -----------------------------end copy-------------------------------- --- oracle@everywhere: The ephemeral source of the eternal truth...